Jesus, Mithras and Horus

Q:  How does one reconcile the existence of Jesus with the preexisting myths of Mithras, Horus, etc., which predate Jesus by centuries and have some great similarities with that story? Why is Jesus the savior and not Mithras?

A:  Those preexisting myths bear no resemblance to the story of Jesus Christ. According to what read, Mithras was not born of a virgin in a cave. In fact, Mithras was born fully grown from solid rock; the event leaving a cavity behind. There was no mention of a virgin. He was helped out of the rock by shepherds, who offer him a pick from their flock. Persian Mithraic traditions recount his conception through the incestual relationship of the god Ahura-Mazda and his mother. And the earliest written records of this story, again from what I have read, post-date Christianity. The more I read about Mithras, the more surprised I am that anyone would link it to Christianity and Jesus Christ.  Horus is even more difficult to understand since there don't seem to be any parallels to the history of Jesus. Mithras and Horus are myths, and they are known to be myths. The story of Jesus has a thorough, verifiable, historical record.

Why is the Beaverton Foursquare Campus So Big?

Q:  My question is not biblical but more practical. I've driven by your facility a number of times and wonder why it’s so big?  I questioned the purpose of the church and why it was necessary to spend so much money on facilities and stuff that so many Christians seem to think make up the Christian life when people are starving and dying on the streets and in prisons.  I'm interested in a church that has so many members that it requires police traffic intervention.

A:  It is big because over time we have grown to a fellowship of several thousand people and the facilities provide space for all of our worship and activities.  We are a Bible-believing and teaching church and we put a tremendous amount of resource into our children.  Other than the sanctuary, all of the other buildings serve children’s and youth ministries.  But please be assured, there is nothing sacred about our buildings.  If they were leveled tomorrow, we would still be the church.  The buildings merely provide the space we get to use together and minister to one another.

We question the same things, as well.  Our buildings are a legacy of past years and we are thankful for them.  But our goal is not to make our church into the place where Christian life happens.  In fact, we are very intentional about equipping our congregation to be the church in their own homes and communities.  We believe that the campus we have is a place to equip and “turn lights on” so that lights can be fired up in homes.  We value prayer, devotions (journaling) and developing our homes as places that produce disciples.  There may come a day when there will not be buildings.  We are more concerned with what goes on when people leave here than when they come.

We share your concern for those in the world who are struggling and so are very focused on missions, on making a difference in a number of communities, here and around the world.  We serve a generous congregation.  In the past year we have contributed to providing clean water by digging wells in Africa, we have built schools in impoverished towns in Sierra Leone, we have deployed missionaries to work with orphans in Romania and China, and we are in the middle of deploying missionaries to Southeast Asia to run a transition center for children rescued from sex slavery.  We are committed to participation in the Advent Conspiracy, a movement of like-mined churches who are forsaking the glitz of American Christmas for the opportunity to support world-changing missional efforts. 

And the reason we have police managing the traffic is that we have so many people who come to the service at the same times.  Between our church and Holy Trinity Catholic Church (next door), if it were not for the traffic cops, I am afraid we would create a traffic mess for the neighborhood.  We want people to be able to get in and out efficiently and without incident.  We want to be good citizens of our community. 

What is it That Makes Beaverton Foursquare Unique?

Q:  What do you have that so many other churches don't have?

A:  Each fellowship is unique in its own right.  In order to find out what we have that others don’t, I invite you to come and see.  Ron Mehl, the pastor of this church for many years (who died in 2003), built the church on a solid foundation of love of Christ and of one another.  Randy Remington, our current pastor, does the same.  There are many people who call our church their home fellowship because they want to do church together.  We are a large church, yes, but we are a church of small groups in many ways.  Many members of the congregation serve together within the setting here. 

There are many other good churches in the area that also worship Jesus Christ, each in their own way.  They have different styles of worship, or liturgy, or doctrinal distinctions.  We may be one of the largest churches in the area, but each of these Christ-worshipping church communities serves the same God and we stand with them and do many things together, like the Compassion Clinic we did in October. 

Churches aren’t full of perfect people, but forgiven people.  Forgiven people have more than just war scars, we have continued brokenness in need of more forgiveness.  God expects us to love each other anyway, and we earnestly try to be gracious to one another and to please Him in doing so.   We hope that our gatherings are places where such people can grow with one another and to abide in Christ. 

Trouble with Church People

Q:  Most church people only socialize with church people.  It's a tight knit social circle no matter how large the body. This is an issue I have encountered in every church I've attended since my salvation when I was a teenager.  It is the main reason of why I don't attend - this separatist attitude I find unacceptable.  I am not interested in forming friendships in church.  My ability to trust people, especially church people, has almost totally disappeared.  Trusting God, I can do.  Trusting people - I'm not able to.

A:  I don’t know if you are a reader, but I am enjoying a book called Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson.  In it, he tackles the question of “why the church” in chapter 4.  It has been a very good read.

The story you tell of drifting away from fellowship happens here too.  I wish I could tell you it never does and never would.  There are so many dynamics involved in such things that I frankly don’t know how to stop it from happening in a large church.  My prayer would be that those closest to someone who has been hurt would be there to include and to reach out, but those dynamics cannot be assured.  The church is made up of sinners – “the fleas come with the dog” – and there really is no way to insure such things outside of hope in the Holy Spirit.

Some of the fellowship groups that meet here are very well equipped to do that, since people who have something in common walk together through whatever it might be.  Some examples include Griefshare (for people who have lost a loved one), LAD (Life after Divorce), THRIVE (ministry to single moms), and a host of others.  If we know someone is in the hospital, one of our pastor/chaplains always visits.  But again, if we don’t know, we can’t visit.  So while those things aren’t perfect, they are there to be as responsive as we can to the places people are in their lives – especially when hurt and healing are critical. 

People who are serving and contributing are usually around, so the relationships that happen here can continue constructively.  We certainly don’t have any litmus test for those to whom we are privileged to minister.   And we encourage our members to develop many relationships outside the church.  We aren’t going to lead too many people to the Lord on this campus – that happens in offices and coffee shops and in neighborhoods and on sports fields all over the city.  I would be personally grieved if there were a separatist attitude here.  If there is one, other than a few misguided folks, I am blissfully unaware (which may be, by the way). 

I know many people who share your sentiments regarding the church and who have been hurt by its hypocrisy.  I am not immune to the same concerns and feelings.  Still, this is where God does His work in many, many lives.  He is not restricted by our failings and in fact is glorified in them when we actually do a few things right!  It is easy to see the things wrong with the church – any church – but there are many things right.  The word is proclaimed, good works emanate, families are supported and Christ is worshipped.  And for the record, I don’t trust “church people” either – I trust Jesus Christ.  And I see him at work all of the time in this very community of believers.  The enemy wants us to see the worst in the church – and yet God invites us to become living stones in the building of God.  I trust God in what He has called me to and who he has led me to be in community with. 

Like you, my wife and I have many friends who have outdone our Christian friends in kindness and grace.  That grieves me.  But on the other hand, it makes me all the more want to introduce such people to Jesus Christ.  Eternity matters, and I want to share eternity with such people!  There may be some folks around here who are “elitist, self-righteous” people, but I can honestly say that most of the people I know here are just simple, forgiven people who love the Lord and are thankful to gather together. 

Is the Bible a Trustworthy Authority for Life?

Q: Why and how have you come to trust the Bible as having authority for your life? Why do you believe the Bible to be infallible and inerrant? And if you could, I'd appreciate leaving the arguments from Scripture such as II Tim 3:16 out of the second question (hope that's not too pompous).  It's important for me to come to a place of peace about what I believe about the Bible itself before I look at how and if I'm to interpret the Bible, believe that theology, and then apply those Biblical beliefs.  I've a very unsettled view of the Bible right now, so arguing that it's true and inspired because it says it's true and inspired just doesn't hold any weight with me.

A: I would like to start this answer by making clear that the Bible is not a text book to be interpreted, accepted and applied. It is a holy place to allow your spirit to abide in Christ. And by the way, even Karl Barth, a church theologian of the 20th century, who was having a difficult time responding to the historical critics of his day (evangelicals have done their homework since then), nonetheless proclaimed that in the Bible he came face to face with God.

I came to trust the Bible first by reading it. In the middle of my reading I began to hear the voice of God and it changed everything in my life. I came to know Him and to trust Him as the Word began to bring revelation into my world. It was (and still is) an incredible journey of discovery, especially given that I was coming from a pretty pagan perspective at the time. Infallibility and inerrancy are based on a number of things - starting, again, with God's revelation to me. Then Jesus' own commitment to the veracity of the Old Testament. He affirmed it over and over again. If the New Testament is reliable, then by Jesus' own proclamation, so it the Old Testament.  Then there is the remarkable evidence of the Church. There are people all over the world - and have been since the 1st century - who know this same God: same Christ; same Father; same Spirit. And it is also important to me that the Church has traditionally held that Scriptures is the infallible, inerrant word of God.

I was insatiably curious early on in my reading - and a bit skeptical - so I began to do my homework. I spent a lot of time reading about the authorship and time of the New Testament composition. I can refer some of the most helpful books to you, since they were tremendously helpful in undoing the bias that had already been in me from years of hearing why the Bible could not be what is claimed. I have read many of the early church fathers - those who wrote from the 1st to the 4th century - who affirmed the Scriptures over and again. Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Ireneus, Tertullian and so many more. I discovered that there is an unbroken chain of Christian scholarship from the earliest days of the church - and those authors wrestled with the same questions we do, only they had the benefit of being able to speak with witnesses and those who knew the witnesses (early on, anyway). They also witnessed to the veracity of God's Word.

If there are obstacles to believing the historicity of the Bible, I'd recommend you tackle a book called "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses" by Richard Bauckham. Just released, it is probably the best overall view of the historical record of the Bible and its writers. There is also an older book - a classic in forensic study of the Bible - called "The Testimony of the Evangelists" by Simon Greenleaf. These are scholarly and well-researched.

If you would like to do a read-through it will become self-evident to you. Let me know.  I pray that your search leaves you with a greater confidence in the Word of God.

Is the Bible God's final revelation?

Q. I'm wrestling with the idea that the Bible is the completed revelation of God, vs. the idea that God is still speaking to His people. What's the scriptural basis for saying that everything we have in the Bible is all there is? As for today, a contemporary revelation that contradicts scripture would be considered heresy. But what about a revelation that deals with something not found in scripture? How do we discern whether a prophecy is from God or not?

A. Thankfully, the answer is not either/or, but both/and (provided we properly define terms). The Bible is the completed revelation of God, and God does still speak to His people. By “completed revelation of God” people mean that:

(1) The Holy Spirit revealed things to the hearts of the original authors of all the books of the Old and New Testaments and they expressed those things in the words we know as Scripture (i.e., all the words of the Bible are inspired [e.g., see 2 Tim. 3:16] and therefore carry ultimate authority);

(2) These things can not be said of any other text outside the Bible. In that sense the Bible is the revelation of God and the complete revelation of God. The Bible, is the standard by which we judge the truthfulness of all else.

At the same time, the Bible teaches that God is the God of revelation, who delights in communicating with His children through the Holy Spirit. He does that directly to the believer’s heart (many examples in the book of Acts) or through another person when the gift of prophecy operates (1 Cor. 14). We can be fairly certain prophecy is from God when three conditions are met:
     • it doesn’t contradict what the Bible teaches,
     • it confirms what we know God is already speaking to our hearts, and
     • the truth is revealed.

The wise counsel of mature, discerning, brothers and sisters in Christ can greatly help us evaluate (“judge,”1 Cor. 14:29) the authenticity of what we believe to have been revealed in words.

 Pastors Keith, Mark, & Greg

Was Satan the cause or the result of Adam and Eve's sin?

Q. Someone I was talking to said that since God can have nothing to do with evil, that Adam and Eve created Satan at the time of their sin. I know this is wrong, but I don't know how to respond. Do you know of any resource for me or him?

A. Thanks for your question Bruce. First of all you are correct. The person you were talking to was wrong. Man did not create the devil by their sin. They were tempted into their sin by the devil. It is always good to remember that the devil is not the equal opposite of God, but merely a fallen angel. He is a created being that became evil (sometime after Genesis 1:31 and before Genesis 3:1) that perhaps could be compared to a fallen version of the arkangel Michael. Some believe that Isaiah 14:12-15 may also describe the fall of Satan since Isaiah’s language seems to go beyond what could refer merely to the earthly king of Babylon. Ezekiel 28 is also believed to refer to the original state and subsequent fall of Satan, in the hyperbolic description of the king of Tyre.

As far as a resource for you to turn to on your own, I would recommend any well accepted book on systematic theology. We have a number of single volumes as well as sets in the several in the Church Library (Grudem, Bloesch, Chafer, Duffield & Van Cleave, Erickson, Finney, Oden, Otis, Wiley & Culbertson,) at the call number 230 or 230.046. Look up Satan in the index and find the section that deals with Satan and the nature of evil.